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indrun commented on a news article Sep 27th 2013, 1:21am
This was a big non-isue in Indiana. Everyone forgot about it being a controversy after the 1st meet. I don't know if its its responsible for Indiana's recent success but XC is alive and well in IN. I'd like to see the state be the first to move to 6K to be consistent with the college distance. This will allow us to continue to kick Illinois' higher population ass.
Feature - Girls Running Equal Distance - Dyestat -2013
DyeStat Editorial ...
Published by:
 
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9 comment(s)
 SteveU
Height adjusted? Dude, you either had your height-adjusted tongue firmly in cheek when you wrote that or you were on drugs. Half the distance? So, what, guys are TWICE as tall as girls? When 5'3" Halle Gebreselassie used to beat 6'0" Paul Tergat in Olympic 10Ks, do you think the race needed to be height adjusted? I actually had to read this post about 3 times to see how crazy it was.

Yes, you were joking, you had to be joking.

bobgrimes, on , said:

Girls running shorter distances does not equate to gender inequity. Because girls complete the course in longer time, the same distance is, in a sense, a longer race for girls. What is the equivalent race for girls can be debated. Equal average time would be a course that is about 10% shorter than the boys' course. Equal pace would be much shorter. A height-adjusted equal pace would be about half the distance. So it's not straightforward.
Scott Bush
In IL, the state pushed the girls up to the 3 mile distance (what the boys run), moving them from 2 to 2.5 then 3, so they spaced it out over two years, which worked very well.
Chris Nickinson

bobgrimes, on , said:

Girls running shorter distances does not equate to gender inequity. Because girls complete the course in longer time, the same distance is, in a sense, a longer race for girls. What is the equivalent race for girls can be debated. Equal average time would be a course that is about 10% shorter than the boys' course. Equal pace would be much shorter. A height-adjusted equal pace would be about half the distance. So it's not straightforward.


With that logic, shouldn't JV races be shorter length, too?
watchout
The only issue I see with a move up to 5k is what Goucher mentioned about middle schoolers. Yes, there are some 7th and 8th graders that run 5k in the country, but most run more like 1.5 miles or 3k (if anything at all) - and I think for the VAST majority of middle schoolers, it is a good thing they are running shorter distances. For combining high school and middle school races, I think New York's solution is the best: if you're going to include middle school kids in high school races, offer a "modified" level race where the kids don't run the full distance, but if a middle schooler is going to be on the high school team, they have to run the high school distance. As for high schoolers... there is no good reason why the girls should have one distance and the guys another. If your state is going to run 3 miles or 5k for boys, then have the girls run 3 miles or 5k as well.
Nelly

indrun, on , said:

This was a big non-isue in Indiana. Everyone forgot about it being a controversy after the 1st meet. I don't know if its its responsible for Indiana's recent success but XC is alive and well in IN. I'd like to see the state be the first to move to 6K to be consistent with the college distance. This will allow us to continue to kick Illinois' higher population ass.


That's exactly how I feel about MN girls moving to 5k. Everyone will forget about it after the first race or two.

In the MNCrossCountryHub article it has this quote: "About 80 percent of coaches in both classes said in the survey that they believed girls are physically able to race 5,000 meters"
I'd really like to hear the reasoning behind the 20% that don't believe girls can race 5k.

You would think that almost every coach/school that hosts a meet would be in favor of girls running 5k as well, if only to make prepping for the race easier by only having to set up 1 course (except races with a 2 mile/Middle School race).
DougB
So the point of cross country is that everyone find the bell curve and run for 17-21 minutes?

Come on. Cross country is about getting from Point A to Point B, covering the distance. There is only one reason that girls in some states run shorter races and its roots are easily traceable.
David Taylor @XCnation
Well SAID!
indrun
This was a big non-isue in Indiana. Everyone forgot about it being a controversy after the 1st meet. I don't know if its its responsible for Indiana's recent success but XC is alive and well in IN. I'd like to see the state be the first to move to 6K to be consistent with the college distance. This will allow us to continue to kick Illinois' higher population ass.
bobgrimes
Girls running shorter distances does not equate to gender inequity. Because girls complete the course in longer time, the same distance is, in a sense, a longer race for girls. What is the equivalent race for girls can be debated. Equal average time would be a course that is about 10% shorter than the boys' course. Equal pace would be much shorter. A height-adjusted equal pace would be about half the distance. So it's not straightforward.
 
indrun commented on a news article Sep 2nd 2013, 3:00am
Doug: Good job on these as your top three are as they should be. Mary Cain is at a whole "nother" level now ala Lukas Verbicus. Baxter has proven she can run in mud and on fast courses with hills. While Rohrer is an unknown on mud, she can do hills and survived an epic seasonal battle with Ashley Erba last year in XC in what was essentially her 1st full XC season. Considering that she has run two sub 17:00 5K's this summer, I wouldn't bet against her at footlocker unless Cain runs it. Baxter at FL would be interesting. Nike in the mud is a whole nother story. By the way, Rohrer was injured for most of the track season and still came back to almost break the IN 3200 record. She is tough as nails it appears.
Preseason National Individual Rankings - Girls XC - Dyestat
Top 100 Girls Preseason Individual XC Rankings  By Doug Binder ...
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31 comment(s)
 Benjtr
Just a note, Julia Maxwell is healthy. She's been training all summer and should be considered one of the favorites in the seeded race in this weekends Stanford Invite. She broke her toe mid way through the Arcadia 3200 last spring and it's very probable she started the race with a stress fracture.
MatthewXCountry

watchout, on , said:

For my rankings, yes. I only look at what happens during the championship races, plus improvement during track.

But these aren't my rankings, and it's relevant to point out how runners stack up. Faster in track (for whatever reason), faster at Woodward, though not as fast but not all that far off at Mt. SAC, but 2-0 head to head at the end of the season seems like more than sufficient reason to pick Williams ahead of Julia Maxwell.

IMO... this is about how I'd put it:

1. Cain - she wasn't far off in conditions that favored Baxter at NXN last year, and was much stronger in track.
2. Baxter - 2-time defending NXN Champ
3/4. Efraimson/Rohrer - These two seem interchangeable to me... I think Efraimson was a little better at NXN than Rohrer at FLN (and was better on the track), but Rohrer won her race and is the returning FLN Champ, and the difference at NXN/FLN wasn't huge. If I had to choose, I'd probably go Efraimson #3 and Rohrer #4, but not a big edge either way.
5-7. Marissa Williams/Jordyn Colter/Elise Cranny. Take whatever order you want, they are all very good in cross. Cranny seems like the better miler of this bunch, Williams has the best 3200m credentials, and Coulter probably had the best finish at XC Nationals last year (4th FLN and within 5 seconds of Rohrer vs. 8th FLN for Williams and 7th NXN for Cranny). Plus, Coulter finished third at Stanford last year (as you point out), in a race that also included Cranny and Julia Maxwell behind her. If I had to choose, I'd probably go with Williams or Colter at #5, and Cranny at #7... Colter if I was worried more about how well they do in cross (#4 vs. #8 at FLN), Williams if I was more concerned about how good they looked this spring (3200m telling more about XC potential than 1500m), or Cranny if it came down to who would probably have the better kick. None of those three would have a significant edge, though.

For #8 and beyond... it's too close for me to really have much of an opinion one way or another. Lots of very good athletes are right there IMO, and that includes both Maxwells (and the bulk of Doug's top 30).


I also agree that Williams is really a great prospect here. I think a key thing to note is that Williams did not run even one fresh 3200 in 2013. Every single 3200 she ran was with a sub 5:00 1600 run a few hours prior. I think its safe to say that William's 3200 time is a bit soft for her ability. She's so talented and in a weak enough section that she doubled her way to and through state. If she was in the Southern Section she would have stuck to one event and would certainly have a 3200 PR in the low 10:20s or perhaps faster.
300kicks

DougB, on , said:

Will she go head to head with Annika Gompers anytime soon?

Annika is in a prep school, ISL/NEPSTA, different worlds
So, NO, not likely
However McNulty's track resume is better FWIW B)
DougB
Will she go head to head with Annika Gompers anytime soon?
300kicks

DougB, on , said:

So you're saying she's higher than 86? :)
How high would you place her?


Fastest returner NXN Northeast (6th in '12)
Returning Massachusetts D2 Champ 18:20 on a VERY challenging Northfield Mt Course
Catarina Rocha (FL Runner-up) ran 18:06 in D1/Record holder Shalane Flanagan Marblehead 17:54

http://ma.milesplit....0-times-updated

Top 50 for sure B)
DougB
So you're saying she's higher than 86? :)
How high would you place her?
SteveU
McNulty has a 10:28 3200 PR from Loucks ... she looks like she'll be a major force this fall. Winning boys time in that race was only 16:33.

300kicks, on , said:

Martha's Vineyard Invite 5k
1 #108 McNulty, Abbie SR Bishop Feehan 5:38.7 17:32.14 1 :D (10:44 Full 2Mile)
2 #461 Worters, Stella SR Shepherd Hill 6:07.9 19:02.83 2 (2:57 1k/5:11 Mile)
3 #97 Harum, Brynna SR Bishop Feehan 6:12.7 19:17.80 3
4 #371 Kennedy, Taylor SR Notre Dame A 6:14.9 19:24.67 4
5 #88 Cutillo, Jackie JR Bishop Feehan 6:23.3 19:50.58 5
6 #455 Schultz, Juleanna JR Shepherd Hill 6:24.9 19:55.56 6
http://www.coolrunni...rtha_set2.shtml
300kicks
Martha's Vineyard Invite 5k
1 #108 McNulty, Abbie SR Bishop Feehan 5:38.7 17:32.14 1 :D (10:44 Full 2Mile)
2 #461 Worters, Stella SR Shepherd Hill 6:07.9 19:02.83 2 (2:57 1k/5:11 Mile)
3 #97 Harum, Brynna SR Bishop Feehan 6:12.7 19:17.80 3
4 #371 Kennedy, Taylor SR Notre Dame A 6:14.9 19:24.67 4
5 #88 Cutillo, Jackie JR Bishop Feehan 6:23.3 19:50.58 5
6 #455 Schultz, Juleanna JR Shepherd Hill 6:24.9 19:55.56 6
http://www.coolrunni...rtha_set2.shtml
Chris Nickinson

bluejaytrack, on , said:

Unfortunate....
http://www.southbend...1a4bcf6878.html


Anna Rohrer out with broken foot. Sounds it this isn't the first time for her. That's no fun.
bluejaytrack
Unfortunate....
http://www.southbend...1a4bcf6878.html
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